John Murray Forbes (1816-1890)
Falmouth, Stafford County, Virginia |Baptism = |Death = in Warrenton, Fauquier County, Virginia |Father = Murray Forbes |Mother = Sarah Innes Thornton |Spouse = Mary Elizabeth Semmes |Marriage = in Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia |2nd Spouse = |2nd Marriage = |3rd Spouse = |3rd Marriage = |4th Spouse = |4th Marriage = |5th Spouse = |5th Marriage = |Burial = Thornton-Forbes-Washington Cemetery, Fredericksburg, Virginia }} John Murray Forbes was a prominent lawyer in the Warrenton, Virginia, area. At one time, he served in the Virginia House of Burgesses. Through his mother, he was related to many prominent Virginia politicians, most notably George Washington. We have record that he attended the University of Alabama, then a newly established college, at the encouragement of his uncle, the Secretary of State in Alabama at that time. He is later noted to have had a suit of George Washington's in his possession. This suit later found its way to Mount Vernon. His marriage to Mary Semmes would appear to be the cause for the forging of a fine family heirloom in our family's possession that we call the Forbes silver pitcher. It is imprinted with "Forbes 1840", which would certainly seem to refer to this couple's marriage. Also worth noting is that John's brother James was killed by the same volley of friendly fire that mortally wounded famed Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson at the Battle of Chancellorsville. James was serving as a volunteer aid to Gen. A. P. Hill. Also interesting is the last duel fought in Northern Virginia was fought on John's property in 1881. Also interesting is that John finished the legal training of one James Keith, who would go on to serve on the Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals. A family History document had claimed that John was himself a Virginia Supreme Court judge, but I think this is the origin of that oral tradition. This John Murray Forbes is not to be confused with John Murray Forbes (1813-1898), prominent railroad magnate, merchant, philanthropist and abolitionist. Documents "Washington's Suit of Clothes" from the American Historical Register, 1895 Washington's Suit Of Clothes.—In Gen. Washington's chamber at Mount Vernon, hanging in a glass case, is a snuff-colored broad-cloth frock coat, a pair of short pants, a marbled-brown and yellowish vest, with a square cut out of the back of the collar by someone as a trophy, and a pair of long, white silk stockings, marked G. W., and carefully darned in white silk by Mrs. Washington. This suit was highly prized by its last owner, the late John Murray Forbes, of Warrenton, Va.; and at a noted dinner at " Innes Hill," given to Senator Bright and the Warrenton Bar, in 1860, at which the writer was fortunate enough to be present, the clothes were produced, and many of the guests, prompted by the desire to don a suit once worn by our illustrious Washington, disappeared, in a few moments reappearing clothed in the ancient relic ! This excited peals of laughter, for the fat and lean, tall and short guests presented each a different and ludicrous appearance. The owner said he had only found one gentleman in his life-long acquaintance that this suit hid ever been known to fit, and he was very tall, angular and rather peculiarly shaped—a magnificient looking man. Below is given an authentic history of the clothes, written by Mr. Forbes, and now in the archives of Mount Vernon. :Catonsville, Va. Kate R. Forbes Witchen. This portion of the apparel of Gen. Washington, consisting of coat, vest, " small clothes" and stockings, was given by his niece, Mrs. Jane Thornton, widow of Col. John Thornton, of Culpeper county, Va., to her eldest grandson, Alfred Augustine Thornton, who married my sister. When Mr. A. A. Thornton changed his residence in the Piedmont of Virginia to make his home on the waters of the Ohio, in 1847, he deposited the suit with me, not as a gift, but to be kept until called for by him ; and, if he never should require its return, I was to make such disposition of it as I might think proper. It was kept by me with assiduous and reverential care until March, 1862, when the Confederate army was withdrawn from Manassas. Being then a member of the Legislature of Virginia, I thought proper to remove my family from my home, near Warrenton in Fauquier county, and the suit was then deposited, with other articles, with my neighbor, the late Mr. Charles Kemper, for safe keeping. During the summer of 1862, while the Federal troops, under Gen. Pope, were quartered in the vicinity of Warrenton, two persons, represent- ing themselves to be Federal officers, entered the dwelling of Mr. Kemper, as he informed me, and demanded the production of all the property left with him by me, of which they seemed to have accurate information, accompanying the demand with a threat of his arrest and imprisonment in the old capital at Washington, in the case of his refusing to comply. The demand was complied with. After making a description in writing of the other property, which was too bulky to admit of transportation by hand, they enjoined upon Mr. Kemper its production when required by them ; but, returning the clothes into the pillow-case in which they were kept, one of the two persons carried them away on his shoulder when they left the house. This is the statement of facts narrated to me by Mr. Kemper upon my visiting him in the fall of 1862, after the expulsion of Gen. Pope's army by Gen. " Stonewall " Jackson from Northern Virginia. The clothes were not seen by me again until May 23. 1877, when I went to Mount Vernon in discharge of the duties of the office of " visitor," on behalf of the State of Virginia, to which I was appointed by the Governor, in pursuance of the statute incorporating the Mount Vernon Association of the Ladies of the Union. They were then recognized by three other members of my family, who accompanied me, as well as by myself, and identified to our entire satisfaction. It was a high gratification to find them, with other relics and memorials of the most illustrious of the sons of Virginia, at his beloved Mount Vernon in the custody and care of the patriotic ladies who honor themselves by their devotion to the sacred duties of their position. It was also a gratification that my purposes should be in accord with those of " Mr. William D. McGregor, of Hudson City, who rescued them from oblivion and donated them " to the Ladies' Association, as stated in the label found upon them in the glass case; for, on the morning of May 23, 1877, on the trip to Mount Vernon, while standing on the wharf at Alexandria, I had stated to my friend, Judge Ball, of Leesburg, that I would, if they were now in my possession, present them to the Association. Accordingly, upon unexpectedly finding them at a late hour, when the regular meeting of the Board of Regents and of the Board of Visitors was held, after making the statement of the facts above set forth in execution of the authority vested in me by Mr. Alfred A. Thornton, now deceased, I conferred upon the Ladies' Association the right and title to the precious relics, with the limitation that, in no case at any future time, the Association should, according to the provisions of its charter, cease to hold Mount Vernon, the said relics are to revert to the State of Virginia, in the same man- ner as the Mount Vernon estate is to revert to it. This written statement is made and signed by me at the request of the Board of Regents, to be deposited among their archives, and to be appended to the suit of clothes in the glass case at Mount Vernon in which they are kept. ::::::::::::John Murray Forbes. :" Ramsay," Fauquier county, Va., May 29, 1877. "John Murray Forbes's Horseback Trip to Alabama in 1831" from The Alabama Historical Society, 1904 THE ALABAMA HISTORICAL SOCIETY MONTGOMERY Reprint No. 21 John Murray Forbes's Horseback Trip to Alabama in 1831 BY THOMAS SEMMES FORBES the TRANSACTIONS 1899-1903, Vol. IV MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA 1904 V. JOHN MURRAY FORBES'S HORSEBACK TRIP TO ALABAMA IN 1831. By Thomas Semmes Forbes, Birmingham. So much occupied are we in the activities of the present and plans for the future that the past is apt to be neglected, especially the past of another people; and yet there a:e many for whom every item of information concerning the Indian, even during the last years of his sojourn east of the Mississippi is of the deepest interest. For the benefit of these I take the liberty of recording a few incidents of a trip on horseback from Virginia to Alabama made in the summer of 1831 by my father th.; late John Murray Forbes of Warrenton, Virginia. He left no written memoranda and I give them merely from my recollection of what he used to tell me. The son of Murray Forbes, he was born Nov. 17, 1816, in Vir- ginia. Having passed through the local schools of his neighbor- hood at Fredericksburg, and the age requisite for matriculation at the University of Virginia, being sixteen, his father was persuad- ed to send him to the University of Alabama then about to open its doors for the first session of its useful career. Two of his uncles resided in this State, one of whom, Colonel James Innes Thornton, was secretary of state and dwelt at Tuscaloosa. At that time Col. Thornton was in Virginia on a visit and it was to his urgent solicitation that my grandfather yielded and permitted his fourteen year old son to make a journey of about one thou- sand miles on horseback and through an undeveloped country. Col. Thornton purchased a fine pair of carriage horses while in Virginia and brought back with him a negro boy, one of his fam- ily slaves, who rode one horse while the Colonel drove the other to a sulky. Their clothing was carried in large saddle-bags and in the sulky box. Occasionally the Colonel and the negro, John, would exchange and he would stretch his legs for a while in the saddle. They crossed the Tennessee river where Chattanooga now stands, and I have often heard my father say that the only house in sight of the ferry, which was in the Horseshoe Bend, was that of the ferryman. No city at that place was dreamed of then. What route they took from Chattanooga I never heard but I know that they did not go to Huntsville, where Col. Thornton had lived when he first settled in the State and which my father was anxious to visit. They passed through Elyton, Jefferson county (near the pres- ent Birmingham), and dined there, and the description given me of the place as it was in 1831 would indicate that up to fifteen years ago there had been few changes in the ancient capital of Jefferson. It is natural to suppose that the road taken by them from the site of Chattanooga to Elyton would be down Wills' Valley along the present line of the Alabama Great Southern Railroad. It was between these places that the Indian country was entered. Col. Thornton, who had made the trip several times, knew when to expect them. As their village was approach- ed he ordered Jim, who was on horseback, to go ahead at a brisk trot. This he did to have a little fun at Jim's expense. The boy had already disappeared over the little hill when he was seen re- turning at full speed, his arms and legs and the puffed out sides of the saddle-bags rising and falling with every leap of the horse. With wide open eyes showing large and white in his black face and panting with fright, followed by a yelling band of Indians, it reminded them of the scene in "Tarn O'Shanter" after the alarm was given the dancing witches in "Kirk Alloway." :"So Maggy runs—the witches follow, :Wi monie an eldritch screetch and hollow." Poor Jim was persuaded to stop when he met his master but the Indians had already given up the chase. They were willing to scare the negro for the fun of the thing but they had no laugh- ter for the white man. As soon as they saw the whites they disappeared, hiding behind the trees and bushes. Nor could they be persuaded to come forth until Col. Thornton had produced a pipe and tobacco and lighting it took a whiff or two and then extended it towards the nearest Indians. Before throwing off their sulky humor or coming from their places of partial concealment one of the Indians asked in characteristic monosyllables, "Georgians? Georgians?" "No," said Col. Thornton, "Virginians. Going to Tuscaloosa." The Colonel afterwards explained that the Indians were at enmity with the Georgians thinking that they had been badly treated by them in the sale of their lands and their enforced removal west- ward. However, when it was learned that they were not Geor- gians, the Indians came forward and smoked and accepted some beads and other trinkets as presents and gave every indication of friendliness. By this time, their horses showing considerable signs of weari- ness, they determined to stop a few days with a Mrs. Pack (or Pacque). She was the widow of a half breed chief or headman and was herself a halfbreed. Mrs. Pack must have been a person of considerable prominence. She owned negro slaves and her daughters were at a boarding school in Louisville, Ky. She had quite a number of cattle and lived in a comfortable house. I have been informed by Professor Samuel L. Robertson, of Birmingham, that old Mrs. Barbara Pack kept a tavern at or near Lebanon in DeKalb county and that he has frequently stopped there when a boy accompanying his father who was an Episcopal clergyman. He also tells me that she has left numerous descendants, some of whom live in Jefferson county and are among our worthiest citizens. It is easy to imagine that an enterprising "young American" after spending his first night with the Indians all around him would be up with the lark. In this instance his energy was fully repaid. He heard Mrs. Pack giving some orders to a group of Indians which he made out as something about "a little blue steer." When she saw him she asked him if he did not want to see the Indians catch and butcher a beef, and being answered in the affirmative, she called to one of the Indians and told him to take this young man with him and that she would look to him for his safety and comfort. He was conducted off some distance to a thicket by the side of a broom-sedge field. Here the firebrand carried by one of the Indians was applied to the dried sedge which was soon ablaze in several places. It was not many minutes before a herd of little cattle came rushing and snorting from the brush. Immediately a dash was made into the herd by one of the Indians and the "little blue steer" was singled out and given chase. He ran him for a few minutes, turning him towards the starting point where he was relieved by one of the others. The animal was thus made to run in a circle. This was kept up until the steer showed signs of fatigue. Then a fresh Indian, who had held him- self in reserve, dashed up by his side and catching him by the horn with one hand and the nose with the other threw him heavily upon the ground and like a flash his knife was out and the animal's throat was cut. Five or six Indians set to work to dress him and ripping off the skin, they cut the disemboweled carcass into four quarters, each one of which was shouldered by an Indian, a fifth carrying the skin. The rapidity with which it was all done was marvellous. For several days the party remained at Mrs. Pack's eating the "little blue steer." They went as far as Demopolis where they visited the Glovers, Col. Thornton having first married a lady or that family. Then they came back to Tuscaloosa where my father matriculated. His roommate was the late Judge Thomas A. Walker, of Calhoun county. Among those who were with him at college and remem- bered him pleasantly when I had the pleasure of conversing with them were the late Doctors John B. Read and Wm. A. Cochrane of Tuscaloosa. Doctor Read was fond of telling of a fight which he and my father had at college. Professor Henry Tutwiler was a member of the faculty that year and at the end of the session the Professor, scarcely more than a boy, and his pupil returned to Virginia in the same stage coach and during this long trip was cemented between the trav- elers a friendship which had commenced at the University and which was maintained through life. Student record in 1901 Forbes, John Murray, lawyer and planter, Fauquier Co., Va. 1831. Falmouth, Va. ; s. Murray Forbes; b. Nov. 17, 1816; Grad. in School, Univ. of Va., 1834; Commonwealth's Atty., Stafford Co., Va. ; Rep., Gen. Asscm., Va., 1861-62; m. Mary Elizabeth Semmes, Alexandria, Va., May, 1840; d. May 24, 1890. Children |- |colspan="3" bgcolor="#FFfce0" style="color: #000000;" |'Children of John Murray Forbes and Mary Elizabeth Semmes' |Birth place = Fredericksburg, Virginia |Death = |Death place = unknown}} |Birth place = unknown |Death = |Death place = unknown}} |Birth place = Fredericksburg, Virginia |Death = |Death place = Warrenton, Fauquier County, Virginia}} |Birth place = Fredericksburg, Virginia |Death = |Death place = Fredericksburg, Virginia}} |Birth place = Rockhill, Fauquier County, Virginia |Death = |Death place = Birmingham, Jefferson County, Alabama}} |Birth place = Innes Hill, Warrenton, Fauquier County, Virginia |Death = |Death place = Accomack County, Virginia}} References *Anderson, Charles W. "The 1840 Forbes Silver Pitcher", c. 2001. *Anderson, Julia W. Collected Research. *Browning, Charles Henry. "The American Historical Register", September, 1895, Pp. 280-281. *Duncan, Patricia B. Genealogical Abstracts from the Mirror, 1880-1890, Loudon County, Virginia. P. 285. *Gallagher, Gary W. Chancellorsville. p. 127 *Leitner Kogl Prideaux & Trelkel Families *Memorial of Thomas Potts, Junior, 4th Generation *National Register of Historic Places Registration Form for "The Oaks" (formerly "Innes Hill"). *A Register of the Officers and Students of the University of Alabama 1831-1901. *The Southeastern Reporter. P. 347. West Publishing Company. *Thornton-Forbes-Washington Cemetery *Transactions 1899-1903, Vol. IV. Alabama Historical Society, Montgomery, 1904. *Virginia Bar Association. Proceedings of the Midwinter Meeting and Annual Meeting. P. 106. *Wikipedia - James Keith (jurist). *Williams, Kimberly Prothro, editor. A Pride of Place: Rural Residences of Fauquier County, Virginia. P. 194. Category:Forbes (surname) Forbes, John Murray Forbes, John Murray Forbes, John Murray Forbes, John Murray Category:Non-SMW people articles